Author Topic: Peter Hurley's Squinching  (Read 2782 times)

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Offline Darren Cassese

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Peter Hurley's Squinching
« on: May 07, 2016, 09:52:18 AM »
I know he didn't develop this "technique" but I like how he teaches it.

Until I watched this, I struggled to find a way to explain this to my subjects. Good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff7nltdBCHs&feature=youtu.be
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Offline Jeff Behm

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2016, 02:57:01 PM »
I learned it from a Hurley tape too and agree it works. But only with men in my experience.

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2016, 10:42:14 PM »
I think for women, it may depend on what you're shooting. For Boudoir, I think it would work well for women. I have often trying to get them to look more sultry this subtle eye shift could really help.

On a side note, I practiced a bit in the mirror today and I think I have it down. Hehehe...
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Offline Mike Nykoruk

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2016, 07:05:50 AM »


On a side note, I practiced a bit in the mirror today and I think I have it down. Hehehe...

SHow Us, D.   :o

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2016, 09:40:44 AM »


On a side note, I practiced a bit in the mirror today and I think I have it down. Hehehe...

SHow Us, D.   :o

Not a chance!

Although I will say it does take practice to move just your lower eyelids.
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Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2016, 11:28:49 AM »
Hurley is dreadful and is regarded as such by the vast majority of actor headshot photographers.  Every Casting Director and agent I have shown his work to hates it and when actors understand why, they hate it too.

The squinch is grossly overdone and it makes people look like they are squinting at the sun.  99% of the need for it is bad camera angle, camera too high, which is also hated by agents and casting directors.   There are much better ways of training the actors face than squinching.

Hurley is all about making himself look good which is why all of his actors have the same expression.  That's no good at all for a Casting Director who needs to see the actor's own character, personality and actor types in the photos.

His other favourite is, "it's all about the jaw".  Well that's wrong too.  It's all about the eyes and the rest of the faces expression matching what the eyes are saying.  That leads to integrity in the expression. 

His direction of his subjects is beyond dreadful.  Bullying and agressive.  It might work for some, but not for most.

No good portraiture can be done in a factory style.  For an actor this type of photography is a disaster and it deeply damages their careers.

What Hurley is the master of is self-promotion and marketing.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 11:31:38 AM by Jenny Gavin-Wear »

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2016, 11:46:25 AM »
Jenny - you have a known disdain for Hurley.

I really don't know him or his work at all as I'm not the type to follow anyone, but I found the approach generally quite helpful in simplifying something I had been striving to achieve. I practiced this myself and now I can better explain it to clients, which is a good thing.

I would be interested in hearing other techniques you employ to accomplish the same desired look.

I actually came across this link looking for "what makes a good online dating profile". The link was posted in reference to someone asking another person - what makes for a "hot" photo. Neither person in the discussion was a photographer.

I agree that this manner of facial expression increases one's "hotness".

So for the purposes of Boudoir, I think it would work quite well.
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Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2016, 01:02:02 PM »
Jenny - you have a known disdain for Hurley.

I really don't know him or his work at all as I'm not the type to follow anyone, but I found the approach generally quite helpful in simplifying something I had been striving to achieve. I practiced this myself and now I can better explain it to clients, which is a good thing.

I would be interested in hearing other techniques you employ to accomplish the same desired look.

I actually came across this link looking for "what makes a good online dating profile". The link was posted in reference to someone asking another person - what makes for a "hot" photo. Neither person in the discussion was a photographer.

I agree that this manner of facial expression increases one's "hotness".

So for the purposes of Boudoir, I think it would work quite well.

Hurley's background is as a model.  What (nearly?) all models do is develop their "money look".  It's the one their clients like and fashion togs like, etc.  The look is ideal because it does not involve very much character.  For that reason it doesn't distract from the product being sold.  Models get told millions of times how amazing their wonderful their "money look" is and they love being told how lovely they are.

That look for an actor is a disaster.   In an actor headshot the actor IS the product.   It can be a pain in the proverbial when I get a model who moves into acting because it is necessary for their own good to get them away from that look.

So for your boudoir, if you're creating generalistic photos with models, great.  But I don't feel it works for "real people".

I use a system of role play for all of my portrait shoots, I'll go into it in more detail if you like ?

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2016, 06:04:18 PM »
.

I use a system of role play for all of my portrait shoots, I'll go into it in more detail if you like ?

Please do.
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Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2016, 06:35:13 PM »
.

I use a system of role play for all of my portrait shoots, I'll go into it in more detail if you like ?

Please do.

Wow, ok, I'll give it a go.

I give actors scenarios to help them get into a role and that gets me the expressions.  I start off fairly gentle and build it all the way to agression, then break it into a laugh.  After have done the agressive stage their face muscles tune up and that avoids the canoes.  After that I go though happy, relaxed, etc.  I have about 8-10 routines which I bring in or out and modify as I go along depending on how the actor is reacting.  It is exhausting for me, it's like doing a couple of hours of improv!

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2016, 11:11:24 PM »
Hmmm...I can see how that would work for actors. I will have to consider a much scaled version to try out with Boudoir clients.
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Offline Mike Nykoruk

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2016, 06:13:02 AM »

What Hurley is the master of is self-promotion and marketing.

Hear Here!  Maybe it's a NY way of talking, but I found myself wanting to say:

 "OK Pete, we get it,  just shut the F up now!" - Just like CHUMP.  :o

Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2016, 12:21:19 PM »
Hmmm...I can see how that would work for actors. I will have to consider a much scaled version to try out with Boudoir clients.

i used a scaled version of it for everyone.  For business people, have them play the roles they play in business, or emphasize the context of the photo - for website, etc.

Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2016, 12:22:05 PM »

What Hurley is the master of is self-promotion and marketing.

Hear Here!  Maybe it's a NY way of talking, but I found myself wanting to say:

 "OK Pete, we get it,  just shut the F up now!" - Just like CHUMP.  :o

Exactly my feelings! :D lol

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2016, 08:07:59 PM »
Sha-BAM!
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Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2016, 10:02:21 AM »

Offline Ed Shapiro

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2016, 12:07:27 PM »
I have been photographing PEOPLE for a very long time- I consider my work to be successful because I tend to consistently satisfy my clients and their needs, wants and professional requirements. I have photographer actors, models, business people, adults, kids, a few VIPs  and just ordinary folks. I believe the key to successful portraiture is a combination of good photographic technique and establishing a good photographer/subject working relationship or connection during the sitting or session. To me, every subject is a different individual with a unique personality, facial structure and not every subject or client has the same requirements or desires. Therefore, not every client calls for the same psychological or physical approach.  I have never asked a subject to manipulate their face, expression or any of the facial musculature in a certain manner.  I prefer to analyze the face,  decide on a lighting and camera position and converse in a natural and friendly manner and discover the best expressions- sometimes it's a matter of timing, instinct and good judgment that comes with experience. 

This is my methodology and I don't foist in on anyone else.  I also like to see and learn how other  photographers work.  I have attended many workshops and seminars over the years and have read lots of related literature and looked at a good number of audio-visual programs.  Many of the photographers who get into the seminar and workshop circuit develop a "sthick"! "Schtick" is a Yiddish word that literally means "piece" but has taken on a show business term that has come to mean an "act" or signature idea. It can also be said to be a "rule of thumb".  Theses things are cool and cute but I don't feel that every schtick works for every situation and professionalism, common sense and experience must govern the application of any methodology.  Oftentimes what works for any individual photographer, based on his or her personality, will not necessarily work well for others- we are all individual and unique people as well. 

I don't like to say I HATE the work of any other  photographer- I prefer to say that there are  styles that I will embrace or even emulate and apply to my own style and there is work out there that I am not particularly impressed with.  I can understand how others promote their ideas and I know and understand what I can do, what I want to do and what may be beyond my understanding and capabilities. I prefer not to bash anyone else's work.  When I teach, I prefer to stick to the basics, share my approaches and inspire students and trainees to apply their own talents and creativity. 

Hey, folks, I may be wrong- after all, I am not a world famous headshot photographer but I do make a living at photographing PEOPLE!   

 
Ed Shapiro
The Hintonburg Studio
Ottawa, Canada

Offline Darren Cassese

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2016, 05:29:13 PM »
We all have to find things that work for us as individuals.

Someone I used to know would stare at the subject for a good 15 minutes before doing anything with her.

That approach wouldn't work for me. I'm too high energy  when I shoot for that.

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Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2016, 05:56:42 PM »
We all have to find things that work for us as individuals.

Someone I used to know would stare at the subject for a good 15 minutes before doing anything with her.

That approach wouldn't work for me. I'm too high energy  when I shoot for that.

Omg, my customers would just walk out!  Sounds a bit creepy to me.

Offline Jenny Gavin-Wear

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Re: Peter Hurley's Squinching
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 05:58:04 PM »
Lots of great stuff ...

As you say, every sitter is different.  Factory style photography doesn't work.